
Ken Gurnick of MLB.com wrote what was essentially a rebuttal to Mike Petriello‘s article about batting A.J. Ellis second in the order.
Catcher A.J. Ellis is aware of the Internet chatter suggesting he might make the best No. 2 hitter in the Dodgers’ batting order, but he thinks he’s a better fit at No. 8, which is where he’s expected to bat this year.
“Internet chatter“.
At least mention him by name and tell everybody where you got the idea from.
Ellis’ .376 career on-base percentage is what catches the eye of number crunchers, figuring he would be on base often for Matt Kemp and the middle of the order to drive in.
Aside from the obvious drawback of clogging up the bases, Ellis cautions that opposing strategy influences the on-base stat for a No. 8 hitter as much as his selective hitter’s eye.
Clogging up the bases? What is this? Dusty Baker managerial camp?
Oh you silly nerds.
“If I’m hitting second, I’m not going to see the same pitches I see hitting eighth,” he said. “If Kemp is behind me, I’m going to get peppered with fastballs. They won’t be pitching around me. I won’t get some of those walks. Sometimes as a catcher batting eighth, they work around you because they feel they have a sure out batting ninth.
“So some of those walks are a product of the pitcher. I love hitting eighth. I take it as a challenge and embrace it. There’s a strong mental aspect to it and I feel privileged in that spot. Jamey Carroll hit eighth a lot for us and he taught me a lot.
I’m not oblivious to the fact that pitchers may change the way they attack batters in certain counts depending on who hits behind them, and while Ellis is being a good sport about all this, I don’t believe what’s being argued at all.
—–
What we do know is this:
1) A.J. Ellis has always had a plate discipline skill.
Despite never having a minor league OPS over .800 until he got to the rarefied air of the Los Angeles Dodgers AAA affiliates at the age of 27, he still managed to stick around in the organization and continue to be a relevant piece.
Why?
Because his career walk rate in the minor leagues is 15.6%. He has walked at a 11.5% clip for his MLB career and is projected to walk at around a 13% rate next year. The average in the MLB last year was 8.1%.
Ellis didn’t magically grow this skill because he’s hitting 8th, he has always had it, and if he didn’t, he would be out of baseball.
2) A.J. Ellis makes a lot of contact.
Pair a high walk total with a ton of contact and you generally have the recipe for an acceptable enough batting average to make the player’s on-base percentage valuable.
His career strikeout rate in the minor leagues is 13.3% and he has struck out 15.2% of the time in the MLB. He is projected to hover around 15% next year, while the MLB average is 18.6%.
So despite being devoid of power, the constant contact and discerning eye help him avoid making a ton of outs, thus making him a decent hitter.
3) A.J. Ellis has not walked more in the 8th spot in the lineup thus far in his MLB career.
Granted, it’s a small sample size, but to say he has walked more because he hit in the 8th spot is just wrong as of right now.
Just saying.
—–
So sure, he’ll get pitched around more frequently batting in the 8th spot than batting in the 2nd spot, but it doesn’t change his inherent skills. Additionally, one could conversely argue that getting more pitches to drive would up his average and slugging as well.
While it’s an unknown how he’ll fare when getting better pitches to hit, it’s a risk I’m willing to take, especially when the alternative is a player who had a .288 OBP last year (Mark Ellis).
Call me crazy.
Chad Moriyama Dodgers, Sabermetrics, Scouting

So what guides the dodgers’ insistence that Ellis shouldn’t hit 2nd? That catchers don’t generally hit second? Didn’t Russell Martin hit second do the dodgers?
I guess I’m trying to understand their rationale. Or are you guys saying they’re just stubborn and stupid? (hey, there’s a non zero chance I that!)
Eric Stephen asked and Mattingly said that he didn’t want Ellis clogging the bases to stop Kemp from stealing more.
I preface this by saying that I’ve generally been a Mattingly fan but it looks like a vote for “stupid” with that response to Eric Stephen.
He’s still fine, because probably 20 other managers would have said something similar.
Slow runner, not the best athlete, and not a particularly skilled hitter.
Of course, he doesn’t make a lot of outs.
Uh oh, here we go…it’s Crazy Kensai getting in on the internet chatter, lmao. Seriously though, I’d love to see Ellis bat 2nd (in this lineup anyway) but have a feeling that, if for no other reason, they will keep him lower in the order just because he’s a catcher like Greg inferred. Baseball seems slow to adapt in these instances.
Amuses me on Twitter when people are surprised when I get angry and passionate about things.
It’s like, “No shit, you’ve seen this show before.”
:o
Ellis should hit leadoff, Ethier second
That’s what the simulation said, right?
I think Kemp should hit fourth instead of third though.
You must mean the simulation MSTI referenced to from Dodgersims.com
I don’t think those simulations were done correctly, Kemp definitely should be 4th. I don’t know if i should even draft Kemp in fantasy looking at the batting order.
Well I’m sure it wasn’t optimized by The Book.
I’m okay with Gordon batting first, but Mark Ellis second is a crime. I hope that Loney can wrestle the 2 spot from him, he’s the right choice for second, IMO.
He won’t for the same reason Ellis won’t.
If Gordon is going to lead off, then Ethier should bat second against righties, and Sands should against lefties. I say this because there’s no way Donny will put AJ Ellis second, so this is the next most credible option. Kemp should bat third.
They probably won’t play Sands enough either. :o
Loney batted 2nd in 13 games last year. It’s entirely possible, now that Blake, Carroll, and Miles are all gone.
They are in love with him batting 5th.
I just realized something pretty sad…the fact that there’s a need for articles and discussions about AJ hitting early in the order. Before the season has even started no less…ugh. Thanks a lot Ned, McCourt and Co. Yet another reason to reserve my excitement for 2014. Can’t wait to be rid of these ultra maroons.
Yeah, it is sad.
They loved batting him fifth when Ethier was 3rd and Kemp was 4th, but i don’t see Mattingly stacking two lefties like that very often, especially since he’s acknowledged that they’re vulnerable to LHP. I’d think that Rivera gets the 5 hole.
They still seem stuck to the idea of Elllis batting 2nd with Loney/Rivera switching 5/6.